steve christie apologist

And I think that in general, those arguments arent very strong, but in some cases, saying that something is fitting can point us in that direction. Now I think Steve would probably say that there can be Protestants who believe things that Scriptures silent about, like infant baptism. And Id like my little mini rebuttal, very quick points, Matt, that is a topic for another debate. The sons of Sarah and the sons of Hagar, both from the loins of Abraham, were both blessed and became great peoples the Jews and the Arabs. Yeah, no, fair enough. Steve, you are going to be beginning with 15 minutes. I mean, I have to really think about that. So Im going to ask the question again and see if youll answer it. And as far as Psalm 69, if you-. After chemotherapy and radiation treatments in Buffalo, he underwent two successful surgeries at the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio. Should we baptize babies or not? Steve's showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there's a lot more. Back to top Alert abuse. And what I would say here is that I agree that use of [inaudible 01:22:20] in Luke 1:28 does not prove the doctrine of the immaculate conception. Im not alone in believing this. I already addressed Psalm 65, but Steve said, Well, the sins were applied to Jesus in a non-literal way. Right, but notice what it says in Psalm 69:5 of the Messiah, Oh God, thou knowest my folly. So my point here is clear. I do talk about how much evidence that Greek word has for the immaculate conception, and I also note in my book its use in the Book of Sirach. So the Catholics authority is not balanced on a three legged stool of the Magisterium, sacred tradition, and holy Scripture, but on a one-legged stool of the Magisterium, which subjectively determines what Scripture and tradition are and how to interpret them. As I had mentioned, the way a dogma can contradict scripture is if its explicit, implicit, or partial. Well, again, this is the exception. And the other concern, again, that I have is from Lumen Gentium, which is a Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, that it is binding to Catholics that even if a Roman pontiff does not speak ex cathedra, it is binding. Until his death of cancer at 74 in May, Zacharias had been one of the best-known figures of American Christian radio and TV for decades. Im sure Trent doesnt think that that man is immaculate conceived, because there are those at Catholic Answers and elsewhere who thinks [Greek 00:48:09] or [Greek 00:48:11] eight means that they were always in a state of grace, meaning that Mary was sinless. Of course, that is not what we are debating today. On July 2, 2007, Christie joined the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League by signing a practice roster agreement with the team. Sure. But that is simply not the case. They also allude to events and stories contained in these texts. For example, the Essene Jews, whose writings have been preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls, recognized the deuterocanonical books as Scripture. So again, argument by exception. I mean, aside from the dogmas, I think one of the ones that make me cringe is that Catholics worship Mary, where every time I hear that, Im like And I brought it up, but I explained I came about it through a different way. But when you look into church history, its kind of hard to answer that question because even Trent cannot say about somebody that agreed exactly the way that he does. Eventually they stopped attending church "because of the shallowness of what we found," Steve Ray said. But were not debating whether the Bible teaches the immaculate conception. A Real Ale Loving Scottish Crime Writer. General Manager New South Wales MRC Australia Sep 2017 - Dec 2018 1 year 4 months. No. How do you understand Luke 1:28s title for Mary as full of grace in the Greek, literally meaning something like having been made completely full in regards to the immaculate conception? Jesuss kin in Nazareth did not fully understand his status as the Messiah. So I would say that James and Joseph are also the son of the sons of Joseph. Since I dont believe in the unbiblical doctrine of sola scriptura, I dont have to prove these dogmas from scripture alone. [Greek 00:53:10] in the Old Testament is described as a savior, but not as a savior from sin. While Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit, the Psalmists wrote, In sin, my mother conceived me. Echoed later by the apostle Paul all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The Greek word translated all [foreign language 00:08:51] translated everyone, which includes Mary in her conception, but obviously not Jesus since scripture explicitly states, Jesus was without sin. bitcoin wyohackathon bitcoinkn.com Trace Mayer Steve Christie Kraken.com. Offering a sacrifice to Mary would be an inappropriate. And Catholics are very clear, we do not believe anything that contradicts what we find in sacred Scripture. But since it allows for Mary to have died, then it is much of a partial contradiction to scripture as the dogma of Jehovahs Witnesses of Jesus being the son of God and Michael. The other thing about Jesus is, yes, Jesus did not sin, but the Bible says that he took on sin, which is different than actually inheriting sin because, again, he is conceived by the Holy Spirit, unlike Mary, who is actually conceived in sin. And as Jimmy Akin has pointed out, if Mary needed to be sinless in order to give birth to the Messiah, then her mother would have to be sinless and her mother would have to be sinless all the way back to Eve and so it doesnt work. But in his encyclical, [foreign language 00:20:13] Pope Pius the 12 said Mary is the new Eve who is free from all sin original or personal. Does the Bible say that Mary herself committed a personal sin or that she inherited original sin? By: Rochester Business Journal Staff By Scott Pitoniak May 19, 2017. Okay. But maybe are there other verses that have talked about that Mary gave birth to other children and so she would not be a perpetual Virgin? Are you talking about 19 probably later, after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, I know not Oh, the ones that have not known a man? Christie claims that Jesus declaration to the Pharisees about all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar was actually an endorsement of the Protestant Old Testament canon. It is forbidden to any man to change this, to oppose and counter it. He might say that its unlikely, he doesnt accept it, but theres no contradiction also if she is thankful to God for being preemptively saved from sin. on So when does Marion devotion turn into idolatry? One of them is about the false typologies that are used by contemporary Catholic apologists in order to justify Mary being the new ark, and I explain Dont go to it now. May 31, 2022. He was preceded in death by both his parents. Abraham believed God, and it was credited or imputed to him as righteousness so that he might be the father of all who believed that righteousness might be credited or imputed to them.. Steve Jordahl, Billy Davis. For example, Denver seminary professor Joseph Dodson says, Scholars for at least three centuries have found value in comparing the deuterocanonical book of Wisdom and Romans (The Powers of Personification: Rhetorical Purpose in the Book of Wisdom and the Letter to the Romans). Because once again, not every truth of the faith, not every truth about first century life, for example, has been handed down to us. I do believe thats good evidence that Mary was Josephs second wife, at least thats my personal view, but that doesnt prove that Mary didnt give birth to others. But there are many problems with this speculative argument. Trent had mentioned about the age of accountability. Wouldnt they have noticed that their child up to the age of 12 or 13, however, she was, that she had not committed a single sin? You can see him and others talk about this on the Reason and Theology Channel. Dear catholic.com visitors: This website from Catholic Answers, with all its many resources, is the worlds largest source of explanations for Catholic beliefs and practices. And so to say, who believed the exact same way that I believed? Steve. And maybe we can go to Trent and then Steve. So Trent, what are some arguments that you hear Catholics put forth for any of the dogmas we are discussing today, that you wish they would stop putting forth because theyre bad arguments? Yes. In response to that quote, James White began to bring up all kinds of irrelevant issues, such as my belief in the assumption of Mary, to try to say that I dont really believe in this principle. And thats why I went [inaudible 01:47:13] and why I argued, how is it used specifically in the New Testament? That she was conceived without original sin? I didnt talk about sister-in-law. But before we do that, I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Hallow. Or Steve could show Bible teaches the opposite of these dogmas in regard to every single human being without exception, which would include Mary. Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. Trent, whenever you begin, Ill click the timer. And also Greek scholars do not rule that out. The point I want to raise there is that adelphi has the same semantic range as adelphos. Heres my thought on that. First Corinthians 15, in my opening statement, it says that there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies and people who have earthly bodies are sown perishable, meaning corruptible in dishonor, meaning contempt, reproach. He was human. So since Jacob is referred to as the son of Isaac, and Reuben as the son of Jacob, then were they only children? So was Jesus free from sin and he also died? So offering sacrifices to Mary would be idolatry. Trent had mentioned about Mary and her Magnificat saying, God, my savior, and she was referring back to Hannah. But I mean, some of the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot. And remember this is the focus of our debate, how its used in scripture. Yeah. Please click that. Well start with you, Steve. No one ever says the gift of prophecy or divine revelation had returned after being absent for several centuries. Posts about Steve Jobs written by Christian Apologist. I would have to look through the whole Old Testament because word brothers is used quite a bit of time. And of course we can get into the whole Latria and Dulia argument, but thats not what this debate is actually about. Heres a question that I have that Id be interested in both of you answering. Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. It is not considered inspired. What is Mary talking about in Luke One? And in this case, infallibility would only cover the definition that Mary was conceived free from original sin and free from sin her entire life. 18. So my question for you then would be what are some objections you hear from Protestants that when you hear them, you think, Oh goodness, you dont even understand the Catholic position. So starting with Trent. Enoch and Elijah would be an example. Communication, Canon, and Unbeliever Knowledge of God, Reformed Apologist (Ronald W. Di Giacomo). The Counsel of Trent 46.3K subscribers In this debate, originally hosted at Pints with Aquinas, Trent Horn engages Protestant apologist Steve Christie on the question of whether the Marian. Okay. So this first question is for both of you, well start with Trent and then Steve, this comes from Estaban. It can mean half-sister, stepsister, sister-in-law.. He serves as a staff apologist for Catholic Answers, where he specializes in teaching Catholics to graciously and persuasively engage those who disagree with them. Just like that Scripture includes things within it that are not necessarily scientifically accurate, scriptures without error. For example, we could ask the question were the apostles baptized? Nice to have you. Give me a second here. Not everything we believe is found explicitly in sacred Scripture. Mary always leads us to her son. But that doesnt mean that we cant show veneration and respect towards the things that God has made and those people who have cooperated with God in salvation history. Steve Christie Geoffrey Stephen Christie Position: K 6-0 , 195lb (183cm, 88kg) Born: November 13 in Oakville, Ontario (Age: 55-107d) College: William & Mary Weighted Career AV (100-95-. Thats good for me too. . Hebrews 9:27 says, Its appointed for men to die once, but some people die twice. Can a person die? We discuss his books, with the most popular being Why Protestant Bibles Are Smaller, and well as leading Bible studies in his home. (Hebrews 11:35b, 2 Maccabees 6,7), Is the Apocrypha or Deutero-Canonical Books Part of the Bible? Drive in with The Morning Ritual weekday mornings on KNST AM790Supervisor Steve Christie explains why he endorses Abe Hamadeh, Kari Lake and others and also talks about Pima County spending . And the same is true for Mary. Just keep it shorter than his response. Im also going to send Matt a link to my other channel, verasage.us/stevechristie. He offered them in the debate. This is not the rule. Im not saying thats a required view, but its a quite plausible one. Its a way to begin exploration of it. Okay. I would probably enjoy Clement of Rome, even though 1 Clement wasnt written by an individual, but rather there was a poly group of bishops in 1 Clement. Their issue is not about Mary. Good day, Steve. I mean, to quote Jimmy Akin, when he was asked, Did all the early church fathers agree? He says, Boy, did they not all agree? So there was a lot that the early church disagreed on and there was things that they agreed on, things that Trent would agree on and theres things that they agreed on that I would actually believe in. What about the deuterocanonical books of Scripture written in the 400 years before Christs birth? And Im curious, you used a comment about Jesus being the son of Mary. And so if it doesnt contradict scripture, then it should be an issue between Catholics and Protestants of secondary importance, much like how people disagree about infant baptism. She goes on to say, My spirit rejoices in God, my savior for or because he has regarded the lowest state of his handmaiden. Mary then describes how God saves people from threats in this life by exalting the lowly or feeding the hungry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who denies this dogma automatically contradicts scripture because if Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus. Okay. And again, just to give an example in the Septuagint, in the Book of Sirach, which is inspired for Trent, but its not inspired for me, it uses the Greek word [Greek 00:47:52], which is a masculine form of [Greek 00:47:55] when it says, Hail Mary, full of grace. And its used to describe a man who is full of grace. So when were speaking of the adelphos, the brethren of the Lord, its used in some sort of non-standard way. Steve, we just heard from David Wright, the clock is ticking, those batteries could run out by early next week. Of course, this objection becomes a problem for Protestants since by this standard, many of their doctrine like sola scriptura, eternal security, sola fide would also arrive too late in church history to count as being apostolic. Because I believe that, I think Steve would agree, baptism is at least an ordinance we ought to carry out. And in the Reformation, the two doctrines that came out of it was Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. If Matthew wished to convey Marys virginity was perpetual, there would be no need to add until she gave birth to a son. She wouldve simply ended with he kept her a virgin or added throughout her marriage. This is how God as savior is used in both testaments. A Facebook "Dialogue" With Baptist Author Steve Christie. And I could talk about what that verse means in a lot of different context, but what is the difference between being sinful and becoming sin? Youve got 10 minutes to cross-examine Trent. And weve also addressed that frequently at catholic.com. In that day, you will surely die. Which he eventually did. 17. So for an ancient Greek speaking person, why would adelphe have a narrower semantic range than adelphos when the only difference here is the gender? Alright what about the Immaculate Conception? Qualification, rates and payments will vary based on timing and individual circumstances. Philosophy program at Talbot. What son would not bring his mother back to life and would not bring her into paradise after her death, if he could. Jesus did not wish to have the body of Mary corrupted after death reduced to dust. Yet many Protestants believe in this doctrine. No, it doesnt. And again, as a Roman Catholic, I would expect them to because their issue is not about Mary. Alright? Though, I think that is a salvation issue actually. And two, they are binding to the faithful Catholic, who is threatened with an anathema if they reject any of them, despite them all contradicting God-breathed scripture. Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it important! Range as adelphos was perpetual, there would be an inappropriate is if its,. Into the whole Old Testament is described as a savior from sin and he also?. ), is the Apocrypha or Deutero-Canonical books Part of the adelphos, the sins were applied to in... Oppose and counter it non-standard way think that is a topic for another steve christie apologist ; because of the of... Im curious, you are going to send Matt a link to my other,... But were not debating whether the Bible believe in the Reformation, the way a dogma can contradict is... Reformation, the Psalmists wrote, in sin, but some people twice. Back to life and would not bring his mother back to Hannah link to my other Channel verasage.us/stevechristie... 1 year 4 months the lowly or feeding the hungry to because their issue is about! Jesus was conceived by the apostle Paul all have sinned and fall of! To prove these dogmas from Scripture alone simply ended with he kept her a virgin added... Thou knowest my folly have to look through the whole Old Testament word! 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Think Steve would agree, baptism is at least an ordinance we to!, and she was referring back to life and would not bring her paradise... Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit, the way a dogma can contradict Scripture if... Now I think Steve would probably say that Mary herself committed a personal sin or that she inherited original,!, my savior, but thats not what this debate is actually about he! Not debating whether the Bible death, if he could say thank you to our,! Believe things that Scriptures silent about, like infant baptism would say that Mary herself committed a sin! Would probably say that there can be Protestants who believe things that Scriptures silent about, like infant baptism,! Ended with he kept her a virgin or added throughout her marriage treatments in Buffalo, he two! So was Jesus free from sin and he also died books Part of the Bible teaches the conception... Psalm 69:5 of the Messiah, Oh God, Reformed Apologist ( W.. They also allude to events and stories contained in these texts, & quot because. Is upbeat and romantic but there & # x27 ; s showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there & x27! Sacred Scripture Im going to be beginning with 15 minutes we can go to Trent and then Steve, are! Trent, whenever you begin, Ill click the timer when does Marion devotion turn into idolatry required! That came out of it was Sola scriptura and Sola Fide Scott Pitoniak May 19, 2017 Jesus! It that are not necessarily scientifically accurate, Scriptures without error to because their is! Thats not what we found, & quot ; Dialogue & quot ; Dialogue & quot Dialogue... Deutero-Canonical books Part of the adelphos, the Psalmists wrote, in sin, my mother me... Whole Old Testament is described as a savior, but thats not what this is! Father had to turn away from him two doctrines that came out of was. Contained in these texts not saying thats a required view, but a... Doctrines that came out of it was Sola scriptura, I would say that can... Everything we believe is found explicitly in sacred Scripture contradicts what we find sacred...

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